What do you think Russia is doing with Ukraine?

    My perspective from studying history is some people forget that Russia saved the world from Hitler. In 1945 America owed Russia in a big way according to the history I was taught. American Corporations were the backbone of Russia and their industries pre WW2 so I guess you could say they owed us to in a sense.

    Quote from 69 CREAM

    My perspective from studying history is some people forget that Russia saved the world from Hitler. In 1945 America owed Russia in a big way according to the history I was taught. American Corporations were the backbone of Russia and their industries pre WW2 so I guess you could say they owed us to in a sense.

    I believe Hitler was doomed to lose WWII from the moment he was born. That guy was fornicated in his head.


    The western allies still would have beaten Hitler but they would have done so at a much higher cost. We probably could have forced the entire Axis alliance to surrender simply by nuking Berlin, Hamburg, and a couple other German towns. And we'd have done it. The nuking part that is, once the U.S. started using them it was checkmate for our enemies.


    That said, Stalin's armies killed 8 of every 10 Germans that died. The Soviets destroyed many of the Panthers and Tigers that were built. And they did so at a huge cost to themselves.

    Quote from Elf Man

    I believe Hitler was doomed to lose WWII from the moment he was born. That guy was fornicated in his head.


    The western allies still would have beaten Hitler but they would have done so at a much higher cost. We probably could have forced the entire Axis alliance to surrender simply by nuking Berlin, Hamburg, and a couple other German towns. And we'd have done it. The nuking part that is, once the U.S. started using them it was checkmate for our enemies.


    That said, Stalin's armies killed 8 of every 10 Germans that died. The Soviets destroyed many of the Panthers and Tigers that were built. And they did so at a huge cost to themselves.

    America did not really enter the war until very late. The number of Russians that died during WW2 is estimated to be about 27 Million although Russia says about 40 Million died. The United States on the other hand lost about 291 thousand, so about 100 Russians died for every 1 American according to estimates.


    If you look at the battles that were fought, I know of no modern day war in which a country and a military sacrificed so much as Russia did in WW2. I also don't know of any historrian that will say America did more than Russia to win WW2. American and Russia were closely allied during the war and even had very close relations just after the war. The interesting thing though if you dig into history was the connection between communism and American Big Corps. I guess you could say the same for Hitler and American Big Corps. Those same companies were a huge part of the rebuild after the war too. Any way, if Russian hadn't stopped Hitler history might have been quite different if you look back at history. America and Americans didn't want to go to war while Europeans, Russians, Chinese and Japanese were all fighting it out pre-Pearl Harbor. But then the war came to American with the bombing of Pearl Harbor. Even after America entered the war, the Russians were very important to America. Times changed since the end of the war. Now we like the ones that attacked us in ww2. (Japan) and dislike the ones that helped us (Russia).

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    My first disagreement is that Russia sacrificed. All they did was fight for their lives after they started world war II with Hitler.


    The Russians invaded Poland and divided it with Hitler. They also invaded Finland.


    So to say that Russia sacrificed during the war really gets on my nerves. All they did was fight for their existence and they were throwing their people into a meat grinder in the process.


    They didn't lift a finger to help anybody else and they cried for help for themselves. And that's after starting world war II with Hitler.


    So my main opinion of Russia is, fuck Russia.


    If you read Churchill's memoirs of world war II you will find that before the war ended they were already talking of the iron curtain and what was going to happen.


    I didn't see Russia jump in to aid any other country like Britain did. All Russia did was absorb blows that they couldn't do anything about. They didn't jump into a war and sacrifice a thing.


    Russia caused a lot of misery for millions of people around the world with what they did after a world war II.

    I have to disagree with most of what you wrote except for Finland.


    They did try to invade Finland, yes. But I think it was more of a defensive move on their part. Finland was a key strategic location in the war. One of my very best friends in the world is Finnish. He gave me some very great information about the war. The Finns hate Russia for what they did in WW2 and he once told me that the only good Russian is a "black russian". The drink because there were no black Russians. A joke, true story though.


    The Russians invaded poland about 16 days after the Germans and for obvious reasons though. Definitely a defensive move.


    To say that Russia only fought for their existance is not true in my opinion. If Russia fell, I believe there is a chance America would have fallen too based on the situation at that time in the war. Europe was weak and had fallen for the most part. If Russia fell, it would have been basically USA and China against the world. China doesn't get the credit they deserve for helping the USA in WW2 either actually. You will probably disagree with that too I bet?

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    Did you not know that Stalin and Hitler had an agreement to invade Poland?


    Stalin and Hitler were allies. They started world war II together. As allies.


    What did the Soviet Union do to stop Hitler before Hitler backstabbed them and invaded them? Not a damn thing. They invaded Poland is what they did.


    The Soviet Union fought Germany only because Germany invaded them. They would have never fought Germany unless Germany invaded them. All of their casualties were to save their own asses.


    The other thing about Russia is that they had no problem sending people into a meat grinder to be slaughtered. So they had endless amounts of people to throw out the Germans.


    France surrendered rather than have Germany destroy their country and their people. That was a good move in the end.


    Russia didn't provide aid to anybody. They didn't fight for anybody other than themselves.


    That's not really a matter of opinion.

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    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_Union_in_World_War_II


    the Soviet Union signed a non-aggression pact with Nazi Germany on 23 August 1939.


    In addition to stipulations of non-aggression, the treaty included a secret protocol that divided territories of Romania, Poland, Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia, and Finland into German and Soviet Union "spheres of influence", anticipating potential "territorial and political


    rearrangements" of these countries.[2] In October and November 1940, German-Soviet talks about the potential of joining the Axis took place in Berlin, but nothing came from the talks since Hitler's Ideological goal was Lebensraum in the East.

    You make a few good points and I lot of what you state is true kinda sort of. When you say Russians I assume you mean the Russians soldiers that were doing as they were ordered?


    Do you know who financed Hitler and who financed Communism and Russia? Following the money usually leads to the truth.

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    What do you mean Russian soldiers? I'm talking about the country of the Soviet Union.


    I mean you can read about it it's basic history.


    The Soviet Union and Germany signed a non-aggression pact publicly and then secretly divided up Europe together.


    They coordinated their invasion of Poland.


    Russia then executed millions of Polish people. Russia was and is evil.


    Everything I said is true and you can read about it because it's history.

    Some of what you are stating could be from of a couple years ago when someone I think from Poland made that accusation. I have not seen any evidence to support that statement though.


    I am open to learning your version of ww2 history if you will teach me. I have never heard your version, although I remember something Poland publically said a couple years ago that I don't think was taken very seriously.


    You hate Russia almost as much as my Finnish friend.

    While I don't like many of the things Russia rulers or Russian overlords have done over the last 100+ years, I don't hate the Russian people. They have been through hell They have been so screwed by the regimes that have ruled the country even up to today.


    Who financed communism? Who profited when Russia became communist?

    Quote from Elf Man

    The hate they harbor for each other goes back hundreds, if not thousands of years.


    If both sides could drop that hate and cooperate with each other it just might be game/set/match for the West.

    The Chinese and Russians have hated each other going way back up until the Romanov's were assassinated. Great Wall of China!

    Quote from Elf Man

    Gina isn't wrong.

    Some is wrong. At least from what I have gathered over time. I am open to having my mind changed though. Sometimes there is new information and I am no expert on Russian history, but I have really spent some time learning and discussing online with others who know much more than I do. Maybe Gina knows more than I do? I wouldn't rule out that possibility.


    The thing with history though is the victor always writes history and it usually changes each time the victor is replaced.

    Quote from 69 CREAM

    Some is wrong. At least from what I have gathered over time. I am open to having my mind changed though. Sometimes there is new information and I am no expert on Russian history, but I have really spent some time learning and discussing online with others who know much more than I do. Maybe Gina knows more than I do? I wouldn't rule out that possibility.


    The thing with history though is the victor always writes history and it usually changes each time the victor is replaced.

    Incontrovertible facts, Hitler and Stalin signed a non-aggression pact with each other. Hitler and Stalin divided Poland between themselves and on 17 September 1939 Soviet troops entered eastern Poland. As part of the non-aggression pact Hitler and Stalin agreed to divide Europe into spheres of influence.