Russia begins invasion of Ukraine - what now?

    Quote from Elf Man

    I thnk you are completely misunderstanding Toad's comments.


    This doesn't need to be adversarial but it sure looks like that's exactly how you are approaching this.

    Of course he is, Elfie. At this point I'm pretty sure it is deliberate as well.


    He's the one that made/makes it adversarial. He has a need to denigrate and insult anyone that doesn't agree that his thoughts on the Ukraine situation are the only honest/accurate/valid positions to hold.


    Any other position posted by anyone not onboard with him is merely parroting MSM positions or whatever.


    I do laugh when I read his attempted insults though. I hope he doesn't throw a hissy fit over this post. :)

    And you are totally not doing the same thing you are accusing me of doing. :)

    I am now. But....hey.....you're too good to discuss anything with anyone that doesn't have your vast insider knowledge of the Uke situation.


    BTW, how did your Zoom call with Milley and Zelensky go?




    (See? It's not hard to be a snotnosed jerk. If you can do it so easily, I guess I can as well.)

    You were an arrogant jackass with an opinion not based on observable facts from the beginning. You continue to have the option to have a sincere conversation but are consistent in choosing otherwise. This will be that way until you choose otherwise. Sorry I'm not giving your opinion any more respect than you are. We can both hit the reset button if you want.

    Buddy, YOU are the arrogant jackass. Our lack of respect is quite mutual.


    You haven't replied to any posited questions. You just slag anyone else as uneducated.


    You don't want to discuss anything. Post #1093 as an example. One would think one that knows as much as you would have an opinion on the potential outcome of this war.


    You got run out of Flamewarriors right? Is that why you moved your collection of internet clips from there to here?


    You know all governments lie during wartime right? Well, to be fair, during peacetime too. So we're just to have absolute faith in the stuff the Ukes are putting out on the net? Ummm. Yeah.

    Quote from Toad

    You got run out of Flamewarriors right? Is that why you moved your collection of internet clips from there to here?

    I'm not cool with the blatant racism and other Aryan Nation crap that fishdick et all turned the place into. The forum wasn't worth saving. How you try to turn that into "run out of" is the same reason we are playing the retards arguing on the internet game now. We can both not do that. If you read what I post in the other thread honestly you would realize that I'm not any more pro UA than than you posted further up this thread.

    I go to FW to steal memes. Razer's thread taken in all is epic.


    I just noticed you moved out for no reason apparent to me. I figured they attacked you. I would agree with your reasoning there though.


    I don't read much if anything there. Saw Fish the Anti-Semite was back along with Spammeister Finger the Fool but I quit that place a looooong time ago.

    If you let go of your ego I'm pretty sure you would agree with what I have been trying to explain to you about UA. Whether you like it or not, me saying you are just speaking in talking points was pretty on point. The same with your selective positioning. Shit talking me like you have may give you some satisfaction but I don't actually care. Arguing with jackasses over the internet has been a thing since the early 90's and I have not lost 5 minutes of sleep over it in all that time. Today is no different and it really is a waste of our time.


    So, if you want to actually listen and discuss instead of push a position on UA you will find a fair amount of value in the other thread and perhaps we can stop derailing this thread too.

    Its very simple. NATO has no authority in non NATO countries. Putin doesn't want NATO on his borders. Ukraine is not a NATO country. Why are American state department assets like Hunter Biden and others working in Ukraine for his/their fathers who is Vice President of America which is a major backer of NATO? I posted a long story about Metabiota. Why does "the west" have the right to create viruses on Russias border using brokers like Hunter Biden who are direct assets for the state department, vice president and DARPA, therefore NATO? Putin asked time and time again for the corruption to stop to the UN and they just didn't care. What do they expect?

    Cheese and Rice!


    You need to look in a mirror when you type that kind of shit RR.


    Your other thread isn't a launching pad for discussion. Perhaps you don't realize you're pretty much the only poster in that thread. Or maybe you haven't.


    As for listening (reading) you haven't posted anything to read. Unless you think unsubstantiated internet clips and videos fill that gap.


    Again, here's a question to launch a discussion: How do you see this war playing out? See post #1093 for potential scenarios that I think could happen.


    See....this is how discussions go. Somebody posts and idea or a position and then other people post their ideas or positions.

    Violator, I am not well versed in most of the stuff you post. You dig deep though, I'll give you that. I've heard/read some of it before.


    But it all goes counter to the US is always good and always does the right thing narrative that most US citizens find comforting.


    I'm a where there's smoke there's fire guy and some of what's happened clearly begs to be fully investigated.


    Anyone who doesn't think this US Government doesn't continually lie and try to cover up their lies is only lying to themselves or they are blissfully ignorant. I'm not specifically pointing out this administration. I'm point out ALL of it. The various Departments and Agencies, the various military arms, the WH....ALL OF IT. For years and years and years.


    Here we are almost 3 years later and the truth is just now coming out about the origins of Covid and the negative effects of the vaccine. This despite the efforts of many qualified and knowledgeable doctors trying to get the truth out and being cancelled for their efforts.


    Who knows when we'll know the truth about Nordstream 2?


    It's easy to just sniff and dismiss Hersh, just like everyone dismissed the Wuhan Lab as the origin of covid.


    But then the doddering dunderhead Biden said:


    "Speaking to reporters on February 7, 2022 Biden said: "If Russia invades, that means tanks or troops crossing the border of Ukraine again, there will no longer be a Nord Stream 2."


    "We will bring an end to it," the president said. A journalist asked Biden how he could do that since Germany was in control of the project, the president replied: "I promise you: We will be able to do it."" Video of Biden Saying He'd 'End' Nord Stream Resurfaces After Pipeline Leak (newsweek.com)


    Russia invades Feb 24, 2022. Nordstream gets blown up September 26. Things that make you go hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.


    Again, Qui Bono?

    The reality is 99% of the people don't put much if any effort into understanding Macro events and how they are likely to be influenced by them. Covid was a great example of that. I was pretty much entirely out of my long positions by mid Feb 2020 because the Chinese had 60 million in lockdown and chiding the world for for talking about limiting international flights while they locked down travel locally. That was a great sell signal and I didn't take the 30% hit like most did. In fact I was up by 10% shorting by the end of March and moving back into the market until Dec 21 where I started repositioning and I was up again this last year. You think I'm pro Biden or a Ukebro because you want me to have a political position opposite yours. I don't actually have much of one and am interested in understanding where things are going. For the sake of clarity, I could not have a lower opinion of Biden but I'm OK with sending stuff to UA so they can defend themselves. What you said was your position pretty much is mine.


    The other thread is a place for anyone to post up relevant info. I simply post a small fraction of what I come across daily so people can get a feel for what is going on there. A number of people here have asked me to continue so I do. When you pick up information from many directions you can get a better feel for how things are going on both sides. Since this forum is pretty much dead there isn't much discussion about anything anywhere.


    "How do you see this war playing out?"

    Most likely? It's most likely to end in some sort of stalemate in a year or so. What kind can vary quite a bit. There are a ton of black swans and paths in the tree. Wars end when one side runs out of the will or ability to continue. That is the point of the things I have posted, to help anyone who puts some effort into the process gain perspective on where each side is on those two continuums. Each side has a path to some sort of more favorable outcome but both sides have and will suffer well beyond any upside potential.


    "See....this is how discussions go. Somebody posts and idea or a position and then other people post their ideas or positions."


    The part you are missing is posting up shallow opinions arrogantly does nothing to forward a discussion. That is why I don't care about those opinions since they are essentially valueless. They are nothing more than ego bangs that waste everyone's time. That crap happens all day every day on social media and forums which is why I personally have no tolerance for the same talking points being posted by people who don't care enough to look beyond them. You did that in spades and then kept smearing me as a "neocon" and "liberal" Ukebro instead of asking some basic questions like why I spend the time on the matter and what my actual perspective was. If you scroll up you will see my responses which were to agree with much of what you posted as your level of support.

    Quote from Toad

    "The part you are missing is posting up shallow opinions arrogantly does nothing to forward a discussion."


    Exactly. You should stop doing that.

    You sure like to fall back on projecting. If you don't like people being disappointed in you behaving like a meme level stereotype then stop acting like a meme level stereotype.


    "Here we are almost 3 years later and the truth is just now coming out about the origins of Covid and the negative effects of the vaccine."


    The truth about covid origins started coming out almost immediately. It was not hard to figure out that the probability of it coming from the lab in Wuhan was quite plausible immediately. The odds became almost 1 within a few months as the research filings showing the grant was being used to study corona viruses in bats at the same time of the break out (May 2020) . It was also clear in the first month that the spike protein sequence that caused it to be so transmissive almost certainly came from gain of function research as there were no examples in nature however Moderna submitted the sequence in 2018 as part of a treatment for cancer. The odds of that sequence occurring in the right spot biologically was infinitesimal. There is a ton of other evidence supporting the Wuhan Lab leak theory and almost none otherwise. So no, the truth isn't just now coming out. It was there all along with lots of bullshit conspiracy theories as well clouding the water.



    "But it all goes counter to the US is always good and always does the right thing narrative that most US citizens find comforting."


    Pretty much all factions put forth their version of the story. The many factions of the US gov are no different. It's just a matter of degrees.


    Saying that most US citizens believe that is part of the othering you do. Polls saying the US is going in the wrong direction are generally up over 80%. They can't think that and what you claim they think at the same time.


    "I'm a where there's smoke there's fire guy and some of what's happened clearly begs to be fully investigated."


    This is where you fall short both with Covid and the UA invasion knowledge. They both beg for further investigation to have a clearer understanding but you didn't put in the effort. Instead you thrash around with the false perception that everyone else is equally shallow and anyone else who doesn't share your shallow views must be othered.


    Your ego is your roadblock not I. You mistake me not caring about your ego as me being deliberately confrontational when in reality I simply stopped caring about carrying other peoples weaknesses a long time ago. I simply call it like I see it and give credibility to those who care enough about their opinions to put the effort into having valid ones.

    Quote from Elf Man

    I'd never say Toad is shallow. Downright stingy with his hunting spots, but never shallow.

    Call me jaded but every day for over a year now on other forums good threads on this subject get derailed constantly by people who walked in "just asking questions" or otherwise that following his talking points and counters . Some places let thread after thread get derailed and often deleted while others do a good job of booting mouth breathers who don't know nor want to know what they are talking about and just want to share their worthless "opinions" regardless of actual facts with everyone else and then when challenged immediately revert to Ukebros!, Biden Supporter! War mongers! like he did. They don't put any effort into getting information from more than one set of sources they find politically convenient and insist that , however propagandized, is the whole truth. He literally hit 90% of the check marks on the list so far.


    So, while he choses to take what I said personally and continue lashing out, I simply don't care because I have dealt with people who behave the same way for decades. It isn't personal to me and I will call out deliberately destructive behavior when people do it but beyond that I don't care any more about their opinions than they do thus nothing they say bothers me. I'm sure you noticed I have kept giving him the chance to change course so we can all put on our big boy pants back on and have productive conversations again instead of this ego drive silliness but he has to get past his ego or we will be stuck in this dysfunctional pattern.

    Quote from Elf Man

    It is.


    Previously the truth was being suppressed. If people spoke the truth they got shouted down and/or cancelled.

    You are right to say the truth was suppressed by the government and social media but it was still there and you could find it by doing due diligence.


    The real threat in my view is the dangerous mix of suppression of the truth and how that legitimizes fake conspiracy theories. That is why I'm so harsh on people who take the lazy way out instead putting in the effort to cut through bullshit on all sides to try to figure out what is actually true. If you want a functional republic you have to value truth over politics and power and that is really challenging in todays society.