Russia begins invasion of Ukraine - what now?

    Quote from Toad

    Well, ad hominem. Exactly what I expected.


    As for Violator, he clearly does know quite a bit of history. You refuse to discuss it with him because you apparently can't refute what he says. In a way, you're acting like a typical US liberal.

    No he picks his "facts" often in direct conflict with observable fact. In his world everything is run by the Illuminati and every single world event is part of their plan. He has a right to his opinion and religion that's fine. I don't waste my time with him because it's a waste of time.


    Your twist is just you being you. Like I said, my bad.

    Quote from rabidrabit

    Really? It's open war between the US and Russia? I must have missed that.


    "We're acting as a co-belligerent."


    In your opinion. There certainly are degrees isn't there. Was Russia acting as a co belligerent by having their pilots engage American planes in the Korean War? Why did we not nuke them then? Seriously, you can do better than this. That isn't an attack, I'm sad the Toad I knew is like this now.

    Sure Russia was a co-belligerent in Korea and VietNam. Why didn't the US nuke them? Because we have foresworn first use of nukes. You think you can say with assurance that Putin will not use nukes?


    We ARE a co-belligerent. We're a little bit pregnant as the saying goes. We are in this and escalating month by month.


    If you haven't guessed it yet, I don't really give a hoot what you or others think about my position.


    I'm against US involvement in foreign wars. It has never worked out to our benefit. This one won't either. It's time we just stopped doing this.

    Quote from Toad

    If you haven't guessed it yet, I don't really give a hoot what you or others think about my position.

    Ok then, again my mistake for thinking more of you and trying to engage you beyond your superficial opinions. You have voiced them and have zero interest in discussing them so there is no point in wasting anyone else's time.

    Quote from rabidrabit

    No he picks his "facts" often in direct conflict with observable fact. In his world everything is run by the Illuminati and every single world event is part of their plan. He has a right to his opinion and religion that's fine. I don't waste my time with him because it's a waste of time.


    Your twist is just you being you. Like I said, my bad.

    No no Rabit. Not everything, however everything you see on the Mainstream Media IS part if their plan because they own it. There is a grand conspiracy, you are just too blind to see it. The WEF and Klous Schwab, and UN are prime examples of it. They are doing the exact opposite of what they say while projecting it to the conservative base because that is what they want to destroy. You have to understand this.

    Quote from Toad

    Actually I enjoy a good discussion. But not with people who can't handle any disagreement.

    My opinion of the war isn't what you think it is. What I posted had nothing to do with disagreeing with you. You put forth simplistic opinions and I tried to show you that the conversation was more complex than your view of it.


    "Actually I enjoy a good discussion. But not with people who can't handle any disagreement"


    also


    "If you haven't guessed it yet, I don't really give a hoot what you or others think about my position."


    The irony


    I'm all for having a honest discussion with anyone. This conversation could have been much different and productive if you had the same interest.

    You judge my opinions to be "simplistic". OK...give me an example of two of my simplistic opinions posted in this thread, Dr. Kissinger.


    I don't have a need for people to agree with me in order to have a good discussion. You, OTOH.............

    Quote from Toad

    You judge my opinions to be "simplistic". OK...give me an example of two of my simplistic opinions posted in this thread, Dr. Kissinger.


    I don't have a need for people to agree with me in order to have a good discussion. You, OTOH.............


    "Well, ad hominem. Exactly what I expected."


    Sorry your tits are twisted. I actually share your concerns about this admin and have said so repeatedly. You should go back and read what I actually wrote instead of interpreting it like you did if you want to get this conversation on track.


    Again,


    "Actually I enjoy a good discussion. But not with people who can't handle any disagreement"


    also


    "If you haven't guessed it yet, I don't really give a hoot what you or others think about my position."


    The irony.


    If you change your mind and actually want to move beyond trolling then great. It sounds like that isn't happening.

    Thanks for the non-response.


    It's clear to me that you're the one that will brook no dissent from the pro-Uke talking points. Every legitimate question is dismissed as too complex for mere mortals to understand.


    Want another example? You claim you have done deep research into this war, so you should be able to answer.


    In every war, the opposing participants have objectives. For example, in WW2 the Allied objective in Europe was Germany's unconditional surrender.


    What is/are the Ukrainian clearly stated objective(s)?

    Legitimate question.


    However, right now anyone should be able safely say that they are simply defending their country from being taken over by Russia. They didn't initiate anything and they are only defending themselves.


    Do we need to question what Russia's clearly stated objectives are? You'd think the onus would be on Russia to explain and not Ukraine.


    Maybe we need to consider what OUR stated goals for what we are willing to help Ukraine with. I'd guess it stops at just getting Russia out of the post 2014 areas of Ukraine.

    This is the Russian mindset


    Russia's Medvedev floats idea of pushing back Poland's borders
    Former Russian president Dmitry Medvedev said on Friday that the only way for Moscow to ensure a lasting peace with Ukraine was to push back the borders of…
    news.yahoo.com


    Russia's Medvedev floats idea of pushing back Poland's borders


    LONDON (Reuters) - Former Russian president Dmitry Medvedev said on Friday that the only way for Moscow to ensure a lasting peace with Ukraine was to push back the borders of hostile states as far as possible, even if that meant the frontiers of NATO member Poland.


    Medvedev, who is now deputy chairman of Russia's Security Council, made the comments in a message on his Telegram account exactly a year after Russia sent tens of thousands of troops into Ukraine in what it called a "special military operation" to protect Russian speakers and ensure its own security.


    Ukraine says it is defending itself from an unprovoked colonial-style war of aggression and has vowed to retake all of its own territory by force, including Crimea, which Russia annexed in 2014.


    Medvedev, an ally of President Vladimir Putin, forecast on Friday that Russia would be victorious and that some kind of loose agreement would eventually end the fighting.


    "Victory will be achieved. We all want it to happen as soon as possible. And that day will come," said Medvedev. He predicted that tough negotiations with Ukraine and the West would follow that would culminate in "some kind of agreement."


    But he said that deal would lack what he called "fundamental agreements on real borders" and not amount to an over-arching European security pact, making it vital for Russia to extend its own borders now.


    "That is why it is so important to achieve all the goals of the special military operation. To push back the borders that threaten our country as far as possible, even if they are the borders of Poland," said Medvedev.


    Poland shares long eastern borders with Ukraine and with Russia's ally Belarus, and a frontier of some 200 km (125 miles) in its northeastern corner with the Russian exclave of Kaliningrad.


    Any encroachment on Poland's borders would bring Russia for the first time into direct conflict with NATO. U.S. President Joe Biden pledged in a speech in Warsaw this week to defend "every inch" of NATO territory if it was attacked.


    Medvedev, 57, has adopted an increasingly hawkish tone and made a series of outspoken interventions since the war began with some political analysts suggesting he is one of the people that Putin might one day consider as a successor.

    Russia has stated multiple times for years about what their problem is. And what happens? The western media writes them off and calls them propagandist because western intelligence cannot admit what they are actually doing, thereby escalating tensions and pissing off Russia. You do realize that Western media is run by Western Intellegence?


    They only tell you what they want you to hear,

    notice how you posted a yahoo article but not actually go listen to his speech or even watch Putins speeches recently or for the last 10 years and the evidence Russia has put forth? You all just take medias word for it and run and continue to ignore why this war is happening.


    I don't agree with everything in Russias government or how they approach certain domestic affairs, but I don't like the WEF, WHO, WTO, the UN, the EU, Trudeau, and the rest of the so called NWO and their Anti American constitutional ways and values. The west doesn't have the right to take over the world as a world government just like Russia doesn't have the right to take over countries either. Both are doing it, and both need to agree that that certain corruption just isn't going to pass.


    This is the consequences of organizations in the west trying to get away with some very disturbing things that must be dismantled and brought to justice. If that does not happen than no matter what, peace will not exist whether Putin retreats or not.

    Wait. Are you saying Joe Bidens son was only there to bang strippers and do blow while being able to afford a 50k a month rent? Russia has presented actual evidence to the UN regarding what Ukraine has been doing and its falling on deaf ears. To say the Ukraine government and even NATO hasnt provoked Russia, is a very unresearched opinion when you look Putins speeches to the UN.