Masters of the Air

    Here's the problem the guys with the desire for EXACT modeling of all aircraft procedures (engine start, arming the guns, switching fuel tanks, etc.) are faced with.


    When I go to work, I have EXACT modeling of the G550 in our simulator. To the extent that when a switch fails or something breaks we have to get the replacement part from Gulfstream. ( A whole nother headache).


    In the 550 sim everything is correct to the last detail, it is correctly layed out with correct spacing. The knobs and levers have the correct shape. The gear handle is the traditionally round tire shape, the flap lever is the traditional airfoil shape. That's why you can do a blindfold cockpit check to proficiency in an aircraft or sim.


    There is NO WAY you can do that on a PC with a keyboard and the very best set of flight controllers, VR set, monitors, etc.. None. You have to look to find the correct item; feel alone won't tell you as there is no feel. Also, you can do two things at once when all is exactly correct. You can extend flaps without looking and turn on the Aux Pump by looking.


    So wanting exact modeling in a PC sim might get you close procedurally but it will take much longer to do things and will be much clumsier as well than actually doing it in the aircraft.


    A waste of gametime IMO.


    I too think HT had it about right. If you need more than that...go rent an aircraft. :)

    Rode Hard, Put Away Wet

    Edited 2 times, last by Toad ().

    Like 1
    Quote from Toad

    go rent an aircraft.

    It's cheaper to play DCS and with diabetes (I'm insulin dependent) I can't fly a real aircraft.


    Here's the thing, you don't have to start the aircraft, you can spawn on the runway with engines running and all switches already set.


    If Aces High still had a sizable player base I'd probably still play it, but it doesn't.


    As a little kid I always wanted to be a fighter pilot but my eyesight and math skills were never good enough but thanks to PC gaming I can be, sort of. Soon I'll be able to fly the F-4E Phantom, an aircraft I worked on. DCS already has the F-15C and E (I worked on F-15A's and B's) so soon I'll be able to fly both aircraft I worked on. I could do this in War Thunder also, but I don't want to do the grind to get the planes I want, but...War Thunder might be what you and Rude are looking for.

    Quote from Toad

    A waste of gametime IMO.


    I too think HT had it about right. If you need more than that...go rent an aircraft. :)


    I think with the MA it's not even an option. DCS can handle 128 players max, but if you have 24 it's already a lot. The MA when I played routinely had 500+ and eventually they split it into 2 MA which sucked really bad. There's no time to learn to fly, all of the time has to be spent learning to fight and to expedite that, most procedural stuff has to be reduced to a button or automated.

    ".War Thunder might be what you and Rude are looking for."


    Probably not. I don't think we're willing to "grind" anything and the idea of plunking down bucks to buy better shit is anathema.


    I admit that I'm an old fucker and set in my ways.

    Flight Sim stuff is the best it's ever been. There still exists low end twisty sticks. Saitek X52 is still around for the low end of the mid-range. Thrustmaster still making good mid-range stuff. There's a new mid-range brand called Gladiator from VBK that people like. The really good stuff is Virpil.

    I got my first CH stuff in 1992. 32 years ago (!). The last time I refreshed it was 2005 (well, around then). I'm still using that gear - just need to do some maintenance on the pedals but still good to go. I couldn't tell you how many hours I've put on that set (Pro Pedals, Pro Throttle, and F-16 Combatstick). I only upgrade my first set because serial ports got obsolete and replaced like for like for USB.

    CHProducts still makes sticks that they were making in the MS-DOS days - virtually unchanged, except they are USB. That says a lot about the success of the design.


    Very few peripherals have survived MS-DOS --> Windows 11. I mean that's pretty incredible... who still has a Palm Pilot ? (LOL).

    Quote from slamfire

    I'm a CHProducts man to the grave. I've tried all kinds of others, and always went back to CH.

    I had CH gear but I couldn't keep it working with DCS. Some folks have no issues with it but for others it's a nightmare.


    Virpil stuff is better than CH ever was, I've had both and there was a time when CH gear was the best out there.

    Well, my take on DCS is there's a bewildering amount of buttons and control interfaces to deal with, so yeah I can see if you get a "system" that has like 50 buttons, it could be preferable for DCS.


    When I was playing DCS, it was stick, rudder, throttle and a few select things (all combat related) mapped to what buttons I had. Otherwise, 90% of the experience was turning my head around and manipulating things with the mouse push/pull. It's cool as flight simulator, but it got old as a combat sim very fast.


    But I'm a CH guy through and through. I got the Thrustmaster HOTA set in the attic (all metal, top dollar). I could never stand it, and never used it in any serious way. I cannot stand fighting against controls that you have to muscle around. Horrific ergonomics.


    I would never shell out the kind of money Virpil goes for, just to gamble if I like it or not. I think I would only go there if CH went out of business and I just wore my stuff out.


    -gg- isn't lying about hating no-combat fly-around sims. I tried to get us all on MS Flight Simulator years back - I was thinking... yeah, fly planes online, drink, socialize - hey could be fun - but -gg- would have none of it. AH or GTFO.