Russia begins invasion of Ukraine - what now?

    I fully appreciate your post. I, a third generation veteran, have experienced changes in perspective as I aged and matured. I tend to focus on U.S. participation (or lack of). Yes, context counts.


    Our battle for independence from England was a decision yet fought on our soil and inevitable IMO. So the first war was good, according to Americans, by and large ...and bad to Brits, by and large. Same with the War of 1812.


    The Civil War was very devastating for both the North and South ... yet both sides found a way to glorify it for various reasons.


    The Indian campaigns facilitated expansion to the West but were horrific (and genocidal) ... but the U.S. wouldn't have become what it is without them.


    The Spanish American War was an effort on the U.S.'s part to lay claim to the Western Hemisphere as its own (and, again, the U.S. wouldn't be the same, otherwise).


    WWI was the U.S. picking sides in a European war that was the worst the world had seen (until a few years later with WWII) but the entry of the U.S. finally cut it short.


    WWII was a global conflict against fascism and we were attacked (I, personally, think that it might have been our one true just war).


    Korea and Vietnam were proxy wars with communist China and the Soviet Union but they caused great death and destruction for the locals.


    The Cold War was (is?) essentially holding our people and theirs as psychological hostages, fearing each other for or very lives.


    The Middle East conflicts were rationalized actions of 'eliminating terrorism' (what a concept) by destroying places and people as an answer to imaginary WMDs and a dozen Arabic extremists committing a terrible crime on our soil (but it also made a president or two seem more 'warrior like' and made stock holders richer - at a terrible cost to our soldiers, their families and the national treasury).


    And so we're here ... on the brink with nobody really knowing what will come of it.


    We've come a long way .... to nowhere.


    When I was younger I actually bought what was taught out of public school history books, lock, stock and barrel. Now, more detail has come to light.

    It is truly a complicated history with the 'devil' ever present in the details.


    i enjoyed reading that.


    Here we are in the middle of nowhere.


    Reminds me of Donnie Darko and Tears for Fears.


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    • Official Post

    It's almost as if China and Russia don't really respect Joe Biden .

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    Biden admin has been in secret talks with Russia DURING the invasion to foster a deal with Iran cutting out China.


    From the look of it Russia told them to pound sand and are doing their own deal WITH China and cutting out the US....unless, of course, Russia is double crossing China?


    https://justthenews.com/govern…-revive-iran-nuclear-deal



    As President Biden condemns Russia's invasion of Ukraine and publicly threatens Moscow with escalating punitive measures, his administration is quietly collaborating with the Russians to revive the Iran nuclear deal and undermine future U.S. presidents who might withdraw from it, according to experts and former U.S. officials.

    "The U.S. has partnered with Russia to get a new nuclear deal with Iran," said Fred Fleitz, a former CIA analyst who also served as a senior staffer on both the House Intelligence Committee and the National Security Council. "This includes secret talks with the Russians over the last year and agreements where Russia would hold uranium enriched by Iran and give it back to Iran if a future Republican president backed out of a new nuclear deal."

    Ah, OK, thanks.


    I don't worry about Iran getting nukes. No point in making a deal with them about it. They'll develop nukes no matter what deal is made with whomever.


    I think before they get a nuke that will work on one of their missiles a certain country that doesn't say much about things will take care of it for everyone else. I bet the Saudis would even let them use their airspace for a while. Or they could do that sub launched cruise missiles thing.

    Quote from Toad

    Ah, OK, thanks.


    I don't worry about Iran getting nukes. No point in making a deal with them about it. They'll develop nukes no matter what deal is made with whomever.


    I think before they get a nuke that will work on one of their missiles a certain country that doesn't say much about things will take care of it for everyone else. I bet the Saudis would even let them use their airspace for a while. Or they could do that sub launched cruise missiles thing.

    I hear that.

    There is a great thread somewhere telling the story of those guys working with the saudis and US to raid a high security storage facility in Iran a couple years back. In and out like thieves in the night.


    i just thought it was funny that the Brandon administration is getting caught negotiating with Russia during this invasion.

    • Official Post

    If this is to believed, those Russian soldiers were lied to. Told they were going for training, then that they would be greeted with open arms.

    Moral seems to be very low. One said they are killing civilaians.


    Meanwhile, Putin told Macron that he was going to take all of Ukraine and that the violence was going to get much worse. Isn't that the Russian way? Total destruction and killing civilians.


    This is horrible. Russia had no justification for any of this. Something needs to be done, but Europe is chicken shit and powerless. They were warned for years.


    https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/…oldiers-cry-tell-26367528


    Captured Russian soldiers cry as they tell relatives 'I was sent to my death'


    Captured Russian soldiers broke down in tears as they told their families they had been 'sent to their deaths' in Ukraine.


    The prisoners of war were interviewed on camera by Ukrainian forces and said they had been used as cannon fodder in the war.


    It comes after Ukraine claimed it had killed 6,000 Russian troops durning the first six days of the invasion.


    Now footage is being shared online showing some of the captured invaders complaining about the war.


    One captive was filmed speaking to his mother over the phone, telling her: “They sent us to death, everyone killed everyone.”


    The soldier then broke down crying and told his mum ‘I love you too’.


    In another clip, a different Russian prisoner said: “We came for training. We were lied to and that’s why I am here.”


    “Nobody wanted to fight but we were told that we would be enemies of the state and because its wartime we might even get shot.


    “We were thrown as ‘gunmeat’, although people in our unit at least don’t want this war, they just want to go home and want peace.”


    Another soldier, who had suffered horrific injuries across his face and body, also featured in an interview with his captors.


    "It's basically like tapping into a police frequency in the US," said Mr Cardillo.


    "It's basically the Russians transmitting on analogue. So when they request air support, or any kind of support, you will hear the helicopter or the fighter planes."



    "We were told we would be greeted with open arms, but they call us fascists," a Russian soldier reportedly texted his mum in a message that Serhiy Kyslytsia, Ukraine's envoy, read out loud at the UN.


    He also read out that the soldier said: "The only thing I want right now is to kill myself.


    Mr Cardillo continued: "There were periods where we heard them [Russian soldiers] crying in combat, a period where they were insulting each other – obviously not a sign of great morale. There was an instance where they shot at each other, there was an instance where they had to transport dead bodies back to their forward operating bases. Many times you can hear them not at their highest level of happiness."