Quote from Elf Man

I have to admit that due to ongoing RL issues that "I lost my way" for several years concerning my faith. Those issues are still alive and well but I'm back on the same path as my faith.

Everyone that's worth anything takes a walk about now and then.

Faith is an English word. Its the best we have for the Greek word Pistis.

In Greek mythology, Pistis (/ˈpɪstɪs/; Ancient Greek: Πίστις) was the personification of good faith, trust and reliability. In Christianity and in the New Testament, pistis is the word for "faith".

In English Faith means belief but Pistis is more complicated. It is an action verb. When we live by Faith we go do something, trusting God in the process.

Faith can be measured, it is measured in risk. The bigger the Faith, the bigger the Risk.

The point in time and space where the word Faith becomes nothing but pure belief is

commonly call Salvation. We don't have to do any thing, all we have to do is believe.

The risk is the ultimate risk. We are risking our immortal soul. If we are wrong, it's a big deal.

Quote from Chakana

I recently heard it termed that revelations are how the universe is continually unfolding itself for our awareness. Like waves on a shore.

In the human realm there are revelators. A revelator can be any person who reveals a universal truth to another.

Then there are those rare types who reveal to the masses. They tend to break, like a wave of the unseen onto the shore of possibility.

Those revelators always seem to admonish the idea of confusing the revelation with the revelator.

Religion seems to specialize in branding and marketing the revelator as the message while obfuscating the actual revealtion itself.

I spent this fall reading the "gnostic gospels" of the Nag Hammadi Library after having a strange experience with an archon-like entity on the Equinox.

I found that I really enjoyed the Apocryphon of John and wonder what kind of world we would have created had it not been for that corrupting influence oppressing us.

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Well said. Canonization, the process of making a set of documents into what we call the Bible, is a lot like making sausage. Some of the people in the NT refer to documents not in the Canon as though they thought of them a authoritative.

My opinion is that the Bible is what it is because it is so easy to carry. Try putting the 50 volumes of the Talmud in your saddlebag and take out over the plains.

Right now I'm working on an idea about the Bible. The idea is that Slavery is a pivotal

subject in the whole thing. That you can't really understand the Bible without studying Slavery.

Now there are two kinds of Slavery in the Bible, one is a kind of family slavery.

If you were Jewish and you went bankrupt. You could go to a rich relative and offer

yourself as a slave temporarily. There's all kinds of symbolism in this pointing

to Jesus. Then there is plain old Slavery. The ownership of people. That's the one I'm talking about.

Slavery in the first century wasn't based on race. Anyone could be one for a variety of reasons. Rome was the dominate force at the time. Most slaves were conquered peoples. Rome would show up at you part of the world and give you a choice.

Give up now or be conquered. It was a little better than that. They offered roads, security, development and they would even let you keep your temples and priest

in fact they would just add them to their own temples and priest. The Pantheon.

If you chose to fight, then they conquered you and drug what was left of you off as Slaves. Most slaves of the time were worked to death in mining and other State activities. Some like Greek slaves were prized as teachers or child care. A lot of people were purchased for their sexual appeal. These were the Slaves talked about by Paul in his writings. The others, he never had contact with.

Tomorrow Chapter 2

Quote from El Sluggo Loco

The only atheists I have a problem with are the ones compelled to constantly remind everyone how stupid they believe theists are.

I agree 100%. Proselytizers are a pain in the ass from any side. I believe in the idea

that today, religions live in a "market place of ideas". Its not original but I embrace it.

You put your ideas out there; if people like them they take them and make them their own. If they don't they go on to the next booth. Very clean, no irritation.

This is just a personal division I use about Christian ideas. I divide the Church (all the people that believe in Jesus) into 3 groups. These are not perfect, every group has traits of the other, but lets go on.

1. the people that worship through "Liturgy". Example: Roman Catholic

2. the people that worship through "Intellectualism". Example: Southern Baptist

3. the Charismatics. These are the most present ones but they tend to be...well crazy.

This is a good time to combine some things. I found this video this morning. Its about the Liturgy Churches of the east and how they are dealing with the Ukraine situation.

Like I always say sometimes: What the Church does today is Church History tomorrow.

Quote from Chakana

I find God to be a concept for something that certain people have exprienced subjectively that shows them an intelligence that is "other".

It could be ET, for all I know.

Do you believe water is wet or do you know it? How do you prove water is wet? Or fire is hot?

These things are self-evident to those who have experienced them. .

I would contend that "God" is the same type of experience except that people who have experienced it can't be sure of what they are talking about or if it's the same as what another person has experienced, unlike water or fire.

Religions are cults, IMO. Not always good or bad.

I have experienced multiple encounters with an ordered intelligence that is immeasurably beyond my own capacity. I don't call it God, because religions have caused that concept to become too defined and thus limited, whereas everything about my experience with this other has appeared limitless.

I don't get how people can believe without having felt/experienced. It makes me wonder how much 'hope' and 'fear 'factor into having faith in God, without having ever felt the water.

A byproduct of a world full of dark doings, I guess?

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"I have experienced multiple encounters with an ordered intelligence that is immeasurably beyond my own capacity. I don't call it God, because religions have caused that concept to become too defined and thus limited, whereas everything about my experience with this other has appeared limitless."

I like this. I practice an experiential form of Christianity. Theologians warn against this kind of religion because it is dangerous, I agree. But all other forms have their own dangers. You don't use the name God, I don't use the name Lord. In another thread I listed 12 names of God. I don't think He cares.

Quote from Toad

Everything about this is a guesstimate on our part. We'll find out later for sure though.

Yes, your right. I would prefer to think of it as revelation, but I also know the truth.