If there is a god or gods, and I'm not saying there aren't, then one thing is abundantly clear: They do not give a shit what happens to us down here. Perhaps they are influencing events on a macro/global scale, but there is just too much suffering for me to ever believe in a personal god.
Also, every organized religion is just human corruption manifest.
Free will is a bitch ehh?
Whether you believe in God or not, the is no proof either way.
If one believes there is a God, that is solely a faith based belief.
If one believes there is no God, that is solely a faith based belief.
I used to think that too, but that all changed not too long a go for me. There is definitely a creator. I have proof as do a few others I have met. The problem arises in trying to explain and share that scientific/mathematical proof in a way that others understand. Maybe I will accomplish that myself at some point. Many will not be impressed though because the creator that can be proven is not exactly like the one in the Bible. It is even possible that the creator created a hologram and we are just part of that creation. I don't know the specifs, but I have seen the evidence of a creator. The universe is not random.
Free will is a bitch ehh?
I don't know... Most suffering on this planet is not from human action, but from disease. On average every 15 seconds, a child dies on this planet. More than 5,000 each day. With all the pain and suffering that entails for countless others.
Ask the dinosaurs what they thought of free will as they were being annihilated by a giant space rock.
"I have experienced multiple encounters with an ordered intelligence that is immeasurably beyond my own capacity. I don't call it God, because religions have caused that concept to become too defined and thus limited, whereas everything about my experience with this other has appeared limitless."
I like this. I practice an experiential form of Christianity. Theologians warn against this kind of religion because it is dangerous, I agree. But all other forms have their own dangers. You don't use the name God, I don't use the name Lord. In another thread I listed 12 names of God. I don't think He cares.
I don't think pronouns apply either.
Those are solely human concepts attempting to define a reality that they/we can objectively experience only 1% of because they/we only have 10% of our brians operating at full capacity.
It's actually quite ludicrous to believe our attempts to concretely define reality in any substantial way is anything other than a form of pissing in the wind.
Obviously we must have some way of identifying our experience, for now, in order to communicate ideas and such....but when the attachment to those labels becomes the end all in terms of identity, serious communication problems take root.
I will gladly use the term God when I am talking with someone who identifies with that concept...or Lord or whatever. When I find that someone is absolute in their concept identity, I keep my mouth shut.
I was traveling through Kasmir in the late 90's and was staying near Dal Lake in Sarinugar (sp?) with some Muslim dudes.
One of their relatives saw that I had an owl talon in my possession and became excited. He said he had a very ill daughter who he was told could be cured with what he was calling an 'owl nail'. That was what I had and when he saw it he implored me to let him have it.
I wasn't necessarily convinced of his story, but I had several talons back at home and decided that I would give him this one if he would simply acknowledge the feminine face of God....any feminine face...that there must be a feminine side of whatever God is.
He would not do this for anything. Not for his child or the owl nail or anything.
Completely mindfucked...by a contrived language.
I believe we inhabit a Russian Doll comprised of limited hangouts all built upon our fatal flaw of believing what we see because we can see it and name it. Like that ship that leaves the harbor a fraction of a degree of course.
It's amazing to study cultures that use plant medicines to activate larger portions of their neo-cortex and discover that they generally lack, as part of their cultural identity, the overall arrogance "orthodox theistic " cultures carry. I would include the western scientific community in the latter...as they have evolved into one of the most devoutly religious groups when it comes to defending their 'higher truth concept/s'.
Most of these indigenous cultures that I have studied or lived in have an ongoing experiential religion based upon revelation. There is no book. The medicine is the revelator and the priest is just the practitioner dispensing it and guardian of the container. The defining quality in which the congregation identifies reality is through song/music....and they are in no way separate from it.
Tolkien's Silmarillion, suggested this mode was the not only the way reality expresses itself but literally what formed it in the first place.
Others would further suggest that the literal key to unlocking higher awareness and more coherent communion with the reality we inhabit lies mostly dormant in the link between our vocal chords and the stator that houses our neo-cortex...our skulls. Literally the tones of our bones.
Not that you should agree or disagree with anything I write...or assume that about me toward you...I just get inspired by certain ripples in the conversation and go from there.
That's just how i roll on the digital medium
Display MoreI don't think pronouns apply either.
Those are solely human concepts attempting to define a reality that they/we can objectively experience only 1% of because they/we only have 10% of our brians operating at full capacity.
It's actually quite ludicrous to believe our attempts to concretely define reality in any substantial way is anything other than a form of pissing in the wind.
Obviously we must have some way of identifying our experience, for now, in order to communicate ideas and such....but when the attachment to those labels becomes the end all in terms of identity, serious communication problems take root.
I will gladly use the term God when I am talking with someone who identifies with that concept...or Lord or whatever. When I find that someone is absolute in their concept identity, I keep my mouth shut.
I was traveling through Kasmir in the late 90's and was staying near Dal Lake in Sarinugar (sp?) with some Muslim dudes.
One of their relatives saw that I had an owl talon in my possession and became excited. He said he had a very ill daughter who he was told could be cured with what he was calling an 'owl nail'. That was what I had and when he saw it he implored me to let him have it.
I wasn't necessarily convinced of his story, but I had several talons back at home and decided that I would give him this one if he would simply acknowledge the feminine face of God....any feminine face...that there must be a feminine side of whatever God is.
He would not do this for anything. Not for his child or the owl nail or anything.
Completely mindfucked...by a contrived language.
I believe we inhabit a Russian Doll comprised of limited hangouts all built upon our fatal flaw of believing what we see because we can see it and name it. Like that ship that leaves the harbor a fraction of a degree of course.
It's amazing to study cultures that use plant medicines to activate larger portions of their neo-cortex and discover that they generally lack, as part of their cultural identity, the overall arrogance "orthodox theistic " cultures carry. I would include the western scientific community in the latter...as they have evolved into one of the most devoutly religious groups when it comes to defending their 'higher truth concept/s'.
Most of these indigenous cultures that I have studied or lived in have an ongoing experiential religion based upon revelation. There is no book. The medicine is the revelator and the priest is just the practitioner dispensing it and guardian of the container. The defining quality in which the congregation identifies reality is through song/music....and they are in no way separate from it.
Tolkien's Silmarillion, suggested this mode was the not only the way reality expresses itself but literally what formed it in the first place.
Others would further suggest that the literal key to unlocking higher awareness and more coherent communion with the reality we inhabit lies mostly dormant in the link between our vocal chords and the stator that houses our neo-cortex...our skulls. Literally the tones of our bones.
Not that you should agree or disagree with anything I write...or assume that about me toward you...I just get inspired by certain ripples in the conversation and go from there.
That's just how i roll on the digital medium
Wow, there is so much there. I may have to read this several times to absorber all of it. Please don't think I'm complaining. What you say is rich and takes me a while to digest.
My first impressions are that you write in the Spirit. Inspired means that God breaths into you. It confirms what I already know. We don't have to know everything to know
what we need to know. My father told me "A man with an experience is never at the mercy of a man with an argument."
"experiential religion based upon revelation" This is the foundation of my belief system. I have classical Christian beliefs but without my experiences they are lifeless.
It takes both beliefs and experiences and more. You have to pursue God and you have to be confronted by God. He has to revel Himself to you. But you have to ask Him to.
I will have more to say to you about what you have written.
Whether you believe in God or not, the is no proof either way.
If one believes there is a God, that is solely a faith based belief.
If one believes there is no God, that is solely a faith based belief.
People can spend their whole lives just believing and never experiencing tangible proof. Jesus said those that believe without seeing are blessed. He wasn't just talking to Thomas, He was talking to all of them. The truth is also that those that get to see are just as blessed.
God hides Himself and why I don't know. He is not a computer, He is a person. He is not a man but a part of Him became a man. So we have common ground. When God reveals Himself to you, its all the proof you need.
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GS, plenty of people have wondered about this but this is a particularly good example. It's clear and well said. When Moses climbed the mountain he said a lot of similar things. Job said a lot of similar things, by the way Job was the first book that was written, long before Genesis.
Job didn't have any choice, what happened happened. He grieved for his children, he endured a lot of pain, he complained bitterly. His wife was no help, she just kept saying "Curse God and die!" At the end he had his stuff restored, twice as much except for children. He got the same number because the other children were still alive in the spirit. God chewed him out, "Where were you when I created the world?"
Moses had a worse fate. He asked hard questions and God put him in charge of fixing the complaints. I am careful about the questions I ask God because I don't want to be put in charge of anything.
Suffering is real, it's not a dramatic play put on to fool us. The Roman Catholics have a teaching about "enjoying our suffering" I reject that totally. When I have something I don't understand and I can't seem to get and answer or I'll be honest are afraid to ask. I put it on a shelf in my mind and I say "Someday I will understand." and I go on.
When I was 20 my shelves were full. Now not so full.
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nothing better than an ashiest mad at god.
Do I think there is a creator? Absolutely. Is he the all powerful dickhead that won't let me into heaven without "worshiping him"? Doubtful, but if he is then he can piss off. Because like someone else said, there's too much bad shit going on. I don't mean like the whole "free will" thing. I'm talking about child cancer and shit like that. Because if he has "control" over shit like that, well then he's an asshole. And if he doesn't, he's not "all powerful". Don't get me wrong, I still think there's a "god" just not like the one's religion has created/depicted. Personally I adopted Sluggo's god a few years back. He told me his god has one simple rule; "Don't be a dick". And it's more of a "guideline" than an actually "set in stone" rule. I tried the organized religion thingy for my first wife. At the end of the year they handed out the monthly flyer. The back page had every member and how much money they gave that year. Yeah fuck that, it was the last time I went to service. I was told I should go back because "you are closer to god in his house of worship". Nope, sitting on the side of a hill with my rifle in my lap as the sun comes up is as close to god as anyone can get.
I think this song sums it up quite well.
Display MoreWow, there is so much there. I may have to read this several times to absorber all of it. Please don't think I'm complaining. What you say is rich and takes me a while to digest.
My first impressions are that you write in the Spirit. Inspired means that God breaths into you. It confirms what I already know. We don't have to know everything to know
what we need to know. My father told me "A man with an experience is never at the mercy of a man with an argument."
"experiential religion based upon revelation" This is the foundation of my belief system. I have classical Christian beliefs but without my experiences they are lifeless.
It takes both beliefs and experiences and more. You have to pursue God and you have to be confronted by God. He has to revel Himself to you. But you have to ask Him to.
I will have more to say to you about what you have written.
That is a very cool and concise adage. Never heard that one.
I went to see the Dali Lama speak one time in a college gymnasium in Salt Lake City, maybe 25 years ago....I got invited by some friends I stopped to see on my way to Colorado.
The one thing he said that really stood out to me, given the community he was speaking to, was to be cautious about discarding your religion if it is something you grew up in. That Buddhism was not meant to replace religion, but as a spiritual practice to help you relate your experience to that religion. I think his exact words were more like, 'a template to help you understand your religion'.
The belief system as an operating system to surf the now....is how i read your response.
I agree. I would also add that the ability to suspend belief in certain situations is a critical part of the pathless path.
Redwing: " sitting on the side of a hill with my rifle in my lap as the sun comes up is as close to god as anyone can get."
Amen, brother. I've said something similar too many times to count. A lot of times it includes a Lab and pheasants though. 
Do I think there is a creator? Absolutely. Is he the all powerful dickhead that won't let me into heaven without "worshiping him"? Doubtful, but if he is then he can piss off. Because like someone else said, there's too much bad shit going on. I don't mean like the whole "free will" thing. I'm talking about child cancer and shit like that. Because if he has "control" over shit like that, well then he's an asshole. And if he doesn't, he's not "all powerful". Don't get me wrong, I still think there's a "god" just not like the one's religion has created/depicted. Personally I adopted Sluggo's god a few years back. He told me his god has one simple rule; "Don't be a dick". And it's more of a "guideline" than an actually "set in stone" rule. I tried the organized religion thingy for my first wife. At the end of the year they handed out the monthly flyer. The back page had every member and how much money they gave that year. Yeah fuck that, it was the last time I went to service. I was told I should go back because "you are closer to god in his house of worship". Nope, sitting on the side of a hill with my rifle in my lap as the sun comes up is as close to god as anyone can get.
I think this song sums it up quite well.
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People get all hung up on tithing. We consider any charity that does good works as tithing. As an example of one we give to https://www.tnfoodonfoot.com/. Money and time goes here. I'm pretty sure the big guy would be pleased with that.
Redwing: " sitting on the side of a hill with my rifle in my lap as the sun comes up is as close to god as anyone can get."
Amen, brother. I've said something similar too many times to count. A lot of times it includes a Lab and pheasants though.
Or a lab and ducks at sunrise on the marsh. Anything like that is hard to beat.
Display MoreI don't think pronouns apply either.
Those are solely human concepts attempting to define a reality that they/we can objectively experience only 1% of because they/we only have 10% of our brians operating at full capacity.
It's actually quite ludicrous to believe our attempts to concretely define reality in any substantial way is anything other than a form of pissing in the wind.
Obviously we must have some way of identifying our experience, for now, in order to communicate ideas and such....but when the attachment to those labels becomes the end all in terms of identity, serious communication problems take root.
I will gladly use the term God when I am talking with someone who identifies with that concept...or Lord or whatever. When I find that someone is absolute in their concept identity, I keep my mouth shut.
I was traveling through Kasmir in the late 90's and was staying near Dal Lake in Sarinugar (sp?) with some Muslim dudes.
One of their relatives saw that I had an owl talon in my possession and became excited. He said he had a very ill daughter who he was told could be cured with what he was calling an 'owl nail'. That was what I had and when he saw it he implored me to let him have it.
I wasn't necessarily convinced of his story, but I had several talons back at home and decided that I would give him this one if he would simply acknowledge the feminine face of God....any feminine face...that there must be a feminine side of whatever God is.
He would not do this for anything. Not for his child or the owl nail or anything.
Completely mindfucked...by a contrived language.
I believe we inhabit a Russian Doll comprised of limited hangouts all built upon our fatal flaw of believing what we see because we can see it and name it. Like that ship that leaves the harbor a fraction of a degree of course.
It's amazing to study cultures that use plant medicines to activate larger portions of their neo-cortex and discover that they generally lack, as part of their cultural identity, the overall arrogance "orthodox theistic " cultures carry. I would include the western scientific community in the latter...as they have evolved into one of the most devoutly religious groups when it comes to defending their 'higher truth concept/s'.
Most of these indigenous cultures that I have studied or lived in have an ongoing experiential religion based upon revelation. There is no book. The medicine is the revelator and the priest is just the practitioner dispensing it and guardian of the container. The defining quality in which the congregation identifies reality is through song/music....and they are in no way separate from it.
Tolkien's Silmarillion, suggested this mode was the not only the way reality expresses itself but literally what formed it in the first place.
Others would further suggest that the literal key to unlocking higher awareness and more coherent communion with the reality we inhabit lies mostly dormant in the link between our vocal chords and the stator that houses our neo-cortex...our skulls. Literally the tones of our bones.
Not that you should agree or disagree with anything I write...or assume that about me toward you...I just get inspired by certain ripples in the conversation and go from there.
That's just how i roll on the digital medium
Sorry if I dissect you piece by piece. LOL.
"It's amazing to study cultures that use plant medicines to activate larger portions of their neo-cortex and discover that they generally lack, as part of their cultural identity, the overall arrogance "orthodox theistic " cultures carry. I would include the western scientific community in the latter...as they have evolved into one of the most devoutly religious groups when it comes to defending their 'higher truth concept/s'."
Part of this reminds me of something.
Take the finest spices: of liquid myrrh five hundred shekels, and of sweet-smelling cinnamon half as much, that is, two hundred and fifty, and of aromatic cane two hundred and fifty. (Exodus 30:23, RSV)
This is the formula of the anointing oil used in the Bible. "qaneh bosem" is the Hebrew words that are translated "Aromatic cane". Now this plant is not used today because it contains a know carcinogen. So to me it is unlikely that this is an accurate translation. "qaneh bosem" can also be translated "cannabis". That would make much more sense. Here's a link. The information isn't just from one source but this is a clear rendering.
Display MoreSorry if I dissect you piece by piece. LOL.
"It's amazing to study cultures that use plant medicines to activate larger portions of their neo-cortex and discover that they generally lack, as part of their cultural identity, the overall arrogance "orthodox theistic " cultures carry. I would include the western scientific community in the latter...as they have evolved into one of the most devoutly religious groups when it comes to defending their 'higher truth concept/s'."
Part of this reminds me of something.
Take the finest spices: of liquid myrrh five hundred shekels, and of sweet-smelling cinnamon half as much, that is, two hundred and fifty, and of aromatic cane two hundred and fifty. (Exodus 30:23, RSV)
This is the formula of the anointing oil used in the Bible. "qaneh bosem" is the Hebrew words that are translated "Aromatic cane". Now this plant is not used today because it contains a know carcinogen. So to me it is unlikely that this is an accurate translation. "qaneh bosem" can also be translated "cannabis". That would make much more sense. Here's a link. The information isn't just from one source but this is a clear rendering.
It would not surprise me to find out The Jeester used ganj.
In Michael Polin's book , The Botany of Desire, he shared info on research into what cannabis does in the brain. Apparently there are gobs of THC receptors in the brain and they deal with muting and unmuting how much of literal reality we perceive. The idea is that we would be completely overwhelmed if we had direct 1:1 relationship with it.
Like in the Matrix movie where the people who were unplugged could only view the matrix in coded form because their computer translators could not handle the it all.
So, the THC from cannabis interrupts that governing system and shifts things.
i find it makes me super anxious and would only consider using it orally in micro-dose amounts for sleep and dreams...or ,if I was using it in smokable form, when I had something physical to do like a long run or hike.
These days I kinda understand some reasons why people would believe in God. Hell I even went back to church for the first time in 25+ years back in the Fall.
But what I don't understand is this: Why would one expect the creator of the universe to look or act anything like a human? The fact that somebody wrote it in a book doesn't really mean anything to me.
These days I kinda understand some reasons why people would believe in God.
Belief/faith and reason are very different concepts. You don't choose to believe in something; you either believe or you don't. There is no conscious thought involved. It's a gut feeling.
Like with beauty. What a person finds beautiful is not a conscious choice. It just is.
Belief/faith and reason are very different concepts. You don't choose to believe in something; you either believe or you don't. There is no conscious thought involved. It's a gut feeling.
Like with beauty. What a person finds beautiful is not a conscious choice. It just is.
Thanks for that. That makes a lot of sense
Thanks for that. That makes a lot of sense
I agree with this. If it's true for you because your gut tells you it's true then you use reason to decide, am I going to whine about the things I don't like about the truth....suffering....or are you going to go with it and have faith that it will all work out.
