Should There be State Run Mental Institutions Again?

In these times of Cancel Culture supremacy....no effin' way.

Cripes Ammighty! I had friends in New York (state of) that were turned in by their neighbors for going OUTSIDE without a mask when that was illegal. There was a big fine for that and neighbors were ratting out neighbors.

Mental Institutions? Nah, no thanks.

Sluggo's still pissed about the John Lennon thing.

Mark David Chapman

Nope. That would be a mistake. Arrest them for vagrancy and put them in the slammer. Feed them stale bread and one slice of cheap bologna sandwiches.

They knew how to handle vagrants in the old days.

I know that the homeless rate increasing directly correlates to the feds convincing the states to close most of their facilities.

And then reneging on the deal.

Anyone who's had any close contact with homeless know some do not belong on the streets. Many don't belong in jail either. It's a perfect catch 22.

Quote from Toad

Nope. That would be a mistake. Arrest them for vagrancy and put them in the slammer. Feed them stale bread and one slice of cheap bologna sandwiches.

They knew hot to handle vagrants in the old days.

That didn't work out too well for those cops that fucked with that vagrant Vietnam vet named John Rambo.

Rambo wasn’t really a vagrant. Brian Dennehy trumped up that charge iirc.

Quote from Redwing7

I know that the homeless rate increasing directly correlates to the feds convincing the states to close most of their facilities.

And then reneging on the deal.

Anyone who's had any close contact with homeless know some do not belong on the streets. Many don't belong in jail either. It's a perfect catch 22.

When I drove for Lyft most of the homeless people I saw probably needed to be in the looney bin.

Quote from Toad

Nope. That would be a mistake. Arrest them for vagrancy and put them in the slammer. Feed them stale bread and one slice of cheap bologna sandwiches.

They knew how to handle vagrants in the old days.

Many of those vagrants were likely mentally ill.

Quote from Gina

Slippery slope. But still, we can't have people camping in the sidewalks and shitting on people's doorstep. Off to the fucking looney bin

They were nice to me in the looney bin!

It costs more to house these people in jail than to take care of them humanely. Americans are always willing to pay for a little extra institutional cruelty.

You post as if every single one is a mental case. Not true. A bunch of them are lazy bastards.

The mental wards/hospitals are all closed. There ain't no mental hospitals no more. The send them to Emergency Rooms, they get at most 72 hours of observation and then they're released.

If, after a month in jail, individuals DO appear to be mental cases...make a mental ward in the jail.

I seriously doubt that mental hospitalization is cheaper than jail. I suspect it's exactly the other way around.

In a former job I held, I went into mental institutions, jails, detension centers, alzheimers care facilities, hospitals and other interesting places. I would visit each place every 1-3 months, and I even had special access codes and stuff to get around inside in some places. It definitely gave me an interesting perspective.

The stuff I see on the street sometimes is far worse than anything I ever saw at any of those places. There are some fairly normal people that are homeless too as well as people that are temporarily homeless, so I hate to group them all together when I comment on homeless people. One thing I noticed was that the worst mental cases were usually of a certain race.

I don't know what the answer is. It is a tough situation. Also the number of homeless has been growing almost every year for the last 40+ years, so this problem is not going away.

Also, in the past some mental institutions were used as detent centers for people that were not mentally ill and had committed no crime. Maybe some still operate that way, I don't know.

Lastly, Sluggo asks - "Is a guy with a huge weapons arsenal spouting crazy conspiracy theories and a belief in a hidden all controlling world .gov enough of a danger to himself and those around him to be forcibly taken away? What's really the difference between a prison and state (as in .gov ran) hospital? And... who gets to define all of these things?"

To which I would say no, in most cases. In most cases those types are not a danger to anyone. There are a few though like Ted Kaczynski that commit crimes.

Prisons and mental institutions are basically the same. In a mental institution the situation is more like a Guantanamo Bay, or Nazi concentration camps in that you get no rights at all. In prisons, you still have some rights.

The governements elected officials are gets to define these things.

Quote from Toad

I seriously doubt that mental hospitalization is cheaper than jail. I suspect it's exactly the other way around.

Most mental facilities are not hospitals. Many are treatments centers, some full time, some part time and those can be less expensive than jail.

We still have a state run mental facility in Michigan. It was actually budgeted to be expanded by our former governor.

When our current governor Bitchface got elected she promptly pulled the funding. Not because mental institutions are evil. Nope, she said there weren't enough workers support it and she was considering moving the whole facility. Of course the new site would be more "dem friendly" than the current site.

But to Toad's point. There are a lot of homeless that should be getting mental health. Sure there are many that are out there by choice as well. California is a great example. When I was there last year I noticed a big difference between the homeless in the city and those on the North coast. The vast majority on the North coast were more vagrant than homeless. Most had some type of vehicle, some even had old motorhomes. It appears they move around occasionally getting temporary jobs, mostly trimming marijuana plants (they call the trimmigrants). They get enough money to live their way for a month or 2 and then go and do whatever they want. And in my opinion as long as they're not harming anyone, I don't care. Sure they appear "dirty" but the ones I came in contact with were friendly and courteous.

Now our 1 day in Sacramento was very different. Homeless sleeping on benches, tents set up between streets, some even appeared to have taken over a state run campground. Many of these appeared mentally unstable. Talking to themselves with fully animated hand gestures, digging through trash cans and just throwing shit everywhere. Others just seem to be drugged up beyond belief. Many would make you immediately uncomfortable being around them. Some definitely needed help but there's the catch. What if they don't want help and aren't a threat to themselves or other? Are we going to force them to get "help" or jail them? And who gets to decide the parameters?

First off the idea that mental facilities do not cost as much as a jail is just plain silly. Think about it. Both share the same kind of need for security to maintain the inmates (appropriate term for both) so that they are not running willy nilly around the country side. Both require that the inmates do not injure each other or the facility employees. In fact, the mental facility will require two types of employee. the security folks who will need to physically restrain the inmate and the care personnel who are required to try and treat the inmate, hopefully with the goal of releasing them in a condition that they can take care of themselves and become a "normal" (whatever the hell THAT is) contributary participant in society. The actual facility is also not that different from a common jail / prison in that they both require secure housing and isolation.

A very significant portion (IMO the majority) of pure homeless folks do have some kind of mental issues that make them unable to function in society or hold a job / residence. I encountered them regularly when I was assigned to the downtown area. Yes there are some folks who would pass for "normal" but fail to be able to or desire to hold steady employment. Some of them end up maintaining some kind of influence on the real mental patient folks if nothing else but by association.

Yes there are folks who by no fault of their own lost their employment and housing. Those folks are willing to work but living on the street makes that pretty damn hard to find a job to get back on their feet. As the economy gets worse that population will unfortunately increase. They do tend to not be the "hard core" homeless who have been there for years.

Some of the homeless are extremely dangerous but present a harmless appearance until they get "agitated". Dealing with them is very hard as they tend not to be able to be "talked down" depending on how badly agitated they are. It ends up being a physical restraint or even deadly weapon situation as almost every one of them is armed with some kind of bladed weapon or club / bat. They will not listen, they will not comply and they will not stop being aggressive. You cannot leave them alone in that state as they will strike out at anyone they perceive as a threat or impediment to their desire. Since they are out in public, John / Joan Q Citizen are at risk. "Suicide by Cop" may be the result and arguably anyone contemplating / in process of that situation is mentally ill.

Dealing with homeless or mental patients can be a significant portion of a Cop's daily activities. Most learn to deal with them without the need for significant force and a bunch of the "patients" end up in jail frequently. Thanks to the ACLU who made it their goal to "release non criminal" mental patients from incarceration in mental facilities. they are out on the street without care and the facilities that used to house them are gone. Now those that are left are dealing with the folks who committed crimes but are adjudicated as mentally ill and sentenced to a state mental facility. It is becoming more rare that a judge will accept a case dealing with a criminal mental patient when it is so easy to rule them as incompetent but "not a danger to themselves or others" and simply wash their hands of them. I have seen it personally as one who tried to kill me (my vest stopped the knife fortunately) was released under just that circumstance. The idiot was a few months later shot by another Officer that he attacked including the K9 that was also injured to the point it required hospitalization. The guy lived but was at least incarcerated for a while. As far as I know he was released again but killed by another homeless mentally ill person. He had poor victim selection skills.